Way to go, Barb (and other supporters of Florida gun laws). We all have seen what happens when citizens are disarmed (Eastern and Western Europe) by law and/or by force. Mexico, for example, has the toughest gun laws in the Western world but those tough laws don't stop the cartels, Los Zetas and other bad guys from getting all the firepower they need to outgun the city police, los Federales and even the military. The only change I would like to see on Florida's carry permits are the guns that are being carried along with proof of proficiency in their use. I'd like to see that the people licensed to carry have at least fired the weapon they are carrying. New gun purchases (to be added to the permit) could come in the form of proficinecy authentication from a private or public gun rangemaster to be carried with the permit. A bit unwieldy? Yes, but with the increase in carry permits especially among so many who have experience limited only to a Concealed Carry Class, it helps address the safety issue.

Sorry to disagree with you Barb but I believe that there is no reason for persons (other than police or military) to have assault weapons or ammunition for same.

I can't wait to be lectured about my gun rights by an Administration responsible for giving guns to Mexican drug cartel members.

If a madman wants to kill innocent people, he will find a way.
Killers don't need guns to kill people. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer. 9-11 terrorists used box cutters and planes. The Nazis used cyanide gas....
Taking guns from innocent people will not protect innocent people. The problem is not guns. The problem is a Godless society.
The same day the US shooter slaughtered the teachers and school children, a crazed Chinese man in China stabbed 27 children in a pre-school. He used a knife.

That Ct shooter was not a criminal, the Colorado Theater was not a criminal, Lee Harvey Oswald, who assinatred President Kennedy, was not a criminal. YThey became a criminal the very second they pulled the trigger. Those cjhildre's rights were taken away from them and they had noi chance. It is the so-called good guys
we have to worry aboiut, your next door neighbor or somjeone down the street. For the most part
the bad guys are already in jail and off the streets. Prisons are being over crowded makes thgat point

Oh yes, we have been pushed back into corners. Nothing like an AK47 to get us out! No one is talking about a hand gun to have in your home if someone breaks in. Believe it or not, Barb, this isn't just about you. 20 six and seven year olds had two and three bullets in them. Frankly I couldn't care less about your rights and privileges. Their rights should have stood for more than yours. The more weapons in a state, the more crimes with weapons. CNN has the statistics. Why don't people turn off Family Guy once in a while and watch the news. Be a part of the solution.

to Sandi who said be part of the solution. How can anyonhe be part of a solution
when no one to talk about a solution. Without solutions, no matter how many guns we all have, what happened in Ct, will happen again somewhere, someplace, sometime, and probably worse, and all the guns and all the kings men in armour
will not stop it. Jack Ruby killed Oswald in a police station, Kennedy was killed
surrounded with armed security personnel, Reagan was shot and wounded surrounded by secret service personnel. Do dialog, no solutions, more killings.
all this on the eve of Christmas. That tells you something.

Ron
You took the words wright out of my mouth Barb.

Every person seeking to diminish our constitutional rights, either does not understand the purpose of the Second Amendment or refuses to address it, writing, Gun advocates will be hard-pressed to explain why the average American citizen needs an assault weapon with a high-capacity magazine other than for recreational purposes. The answer to this question is straightforward: The purpose of having citizens armed with paramilitary weapons is to allow them to engage in paramilitary actions! The Second Amendment is not about Bambi and burglars whatever a well-regulated militia is, it is not a hunting party or a sport-clays club. It is remarkable to me that any educated person let alone a Harvard Law graduate believes that the second item on the Bill of Rights right after the freedom of speech is a constitutional guarantee of enjoying a recreational activity.

There is no legitimate exception to the Second Amendment for military-style weapons, because military-style weapons are precisely what the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to secure our ability to oppose enemies foreign and domestic, a guarantee against disorder and tyranny.

Consider the words of Supreme Court justice Joseph Story who was, it bears noting, appointed to the Court by the guy who wrote the Constitution: (to follow)

Consider the words of Supreme Court justice Joseph Story who was, it bears noting, appointed to the Court by the guy who wrote the Constitution:

"The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."

Usurpation and arbitrary power of the rulers not Bambi, not burglars. While your granddads .30-06 is a good deal more powerful than the .223 rifles that give blue-state types the howling fantods, that is not what we have a constitutional provision to protect. Liberals are forever asking: Why would anybody need a gun like that? And the answer is: because we are not serfs. We are a free people living under a republic of our own construction. We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled.

The right to keep and bear arms is a civil right. If you doubt that, consider the history of arms control in England, where members of the Catholic minority (and non-Protestants generally) were prohibited from bearing arms as part of the campaign of general political oppression against them. The Act of Disenfranchisement was still in effect when our Constitution was being written, a fact that surely was on the mind of such Founding Fathers as Daniel Carroll, to say nothing of his brother, Archbishop John Carroll.

Our 2nd Amendment was made into law for the sole purpose to protect oneself against a rouge government, Look up, research yourselves people quotes from our forefathers and the signers. It is obvious what it was intended for. Obama knows damn right what the America people were warned about and what we were told to do if The US Government ever turned against it's own people.

Someone please tell me the stats on how often or how many citizens who are legally permitted to carry a concealed weapon has committed a mass shooting. I have a CCW in Florida and I carry absolutely everywhere I can legally. I have 11 years experience in the military both as a Military Police and a nuclear weapons security guard. I deserve the right to defend myself from the crazies who are committing these awful acts like in Newtown or Colorado. A lot of people can die in the 5 to 10 minutes it takes for law enforcement to respond to a situation. Fact....in shootings where there is no one with a concealed weapon an average of 10-12 people lose their lives. In shootings where there was someone on sight with a legally carried weapon an average of 2-3 people lose their lives. A lot of damage can be done in the time it takes law enforcement to get on the scene. It is my right and responsibility to protect myself and my family. Please someone sight a case in these mass shootings where the shooter wasn't mentally ill. The problem is not guns, it is our mental health system. A sane person does not become a mass shooter just because he has a gun. But, an insane person who doesn't have a gun WILL find one if he/she wants to bad enough. By the way, I think we should ban or have background checks for those purchasing hammers. More people are murdered each year by hammers than by assault weapons. Gun laws only affect those who are law-abiding citizens.

I was born in Tampa and have lived in the area over 50 years. I will be getting my carry license this week. I grew up to respect guns. Look at the people using guns to hurt others...like the mall shooting. Did these people have permits? or/and were they legal guns? Most of the time when guns are used in a crime the gun is NOT legal... Don't push the negative stuff on the GOOD people who respect our guns and rights. Get the story striaght...

John's correct. I like guns and even own a bunch but why should everybody have the right to concealed handguns? Long barrel guns are for hunting, target and protection. Handguns, hidden in your pants, are used for assault and protection.

wrong the crimnals ahve illlegal guns i have the right to protect me and my family and not retreat in AS STAND MY GROUND I AHVE NO CRIMNAL RECORD AND KNOW HOW TO SHOOT MY LEAG LGUINS ACCORDING TO U ONLY TTHJE BAD GUYS SHOW HAVE GUNS AND THE GOOD GUYS CANT PROTECT THEM SEVLES BALONLEY

On the SAME tragic, senseless day in Connecticut--in Beijing, China, 22 school children were stabbed by a "mentally deranged" man, armed with a knife. An officer said the attack, in the village of Chengping in Henan province, happened short
ly before 8am on Friday, as students were arriving for classes.

In March 2010, eight children were murdered in Nanping, Fujian province, by 41-year-old knifeman Zheng Minsheng. The attacker was executed a month later.

Also in March 2010, 33-year-old Chen Kangbing injured 16 students and a teacher at Hongfu Primary School in Leizhou, Guangdong.

In April 29 2010, 28 school children - mostly four-year-olds - were stabbed alongside two teachers and a security guard in Taixing, Jiangsu.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai committed suicide after using a hammer to attack preschool children in Weifang, Shandong.

Further attacks in the months and years following have left 11 children and four adults dead, and several more injured.

------
Knife control? Guns are banned in China or else they could have taken this guy down before he stabbed more kids.
____________________________________________

NOTE: In the USA, The federal ban on the sale of some semi-automatic weapons dubbed "assault" weapons expired in 2004 and has not been renewed because it had no real impact on gun crimes!

Seriously.....are you on medication?

GOOD U MOVE ILL STAY

Florida hardly has the most violent crime in the country. Checked the statistics for Chicago, Detroit, Gary, Washington DC, lately? Just make it up as you go along.

Carla you are one of the few sane people in here but FL but FL does not have the most violent crime in the country. It does however have the most wackos, although TX and AZ are running a close second. In FL people shoot each other over X-boxes and videogames, shoot each other over a fence, or a dog. Anyway, you can live in FL with no probems, no need to own a gun. I have lived here for almost 30 years, never needed a gun, have no intention of buying one. But if FL keeps going the way it is where any wacko can get a concealed weapon permit (like a man I know who just got his, he's on meds for depression, is bipolar and I stay away from him as much as possible). He will snap one day for sure. My question is, HOW do these people get these permits? We don't need gun control, we need COMMON SENSE, something which in this country went by the wayside years ago....

OK, shoot me, I was wrong. Florida is the eighth highest in VIOLENT crime in the country .. and the third highest for property crime in the country. Whew! This makes me feel SO MUCH better.

[quote] "The rate of violent crime in the state of Florida fell by nearly 100 incidents per 100,000 people, from 612.5 per 100,000 residents in 2010 to 515.3 in 2011. This rate, however, remains the eighth highest in the country. Property crime in the state was also quite high last year. There were more than 2,400 cases of larceny and theft per 100,000 people, the third-highest rate in the country"

Hey Jacob! I love your sense of humor!

Carla, I don't know where you get your stats or ideas from and I guess you didn,t live in any of the strict gun control states in the northern US but there is far fewer crime of any kind here than in NY for example. I lived on LI my entire life and moved here 8 years ago. My hometown went from a place where no one ever locked their doors to a place where people became afraid to walk the streets in less than 20 years thanks in part to stricter gun control laws (illegal immigration comprised a good part as well). You mock some of the ridiculous reasons normally law-abiding citizens have used their guns for here in FL but apparently you've never heard of teenagers being shot on their way to or from school just for their sneakers or the $5 in lunch money they may have been carrying. Apparently you never heard of the home invasion epidemic on LI that, at least up until 3 or 4 years ago, had terrified residents who didn't stick their heads in the sand about such issues. You must have missed all those stories of shoppers being raped or robbed at gunpoint in mall parking lots so that now just about every mall there has seemingly as many security people as shoppers.
I don't own a gun and the only time I've ever fired 1 was in the Air Force 30+ years ago but I don't deny anyone else their constitutional right to own 1. I do think, however, there should be at least a little common sense approach and responsibility to gun ownership.

Hi Tony, I only quoted what I'm reading online about violent crime stats in Florida. It only makes sense that the more violent crime in a state, the more one might have a fear of being a victim of violent crime .. and would then increase the number of gun sales. If anyone believes that Florida is a totally "safe" place to live, think twice.

Personally (just my opinion) I do not believe that ALL types of guns should be banned but only those that can "wipe out" a crowd of people in a matter of seconds.

What is the rationale of owning a killer weapon like this? And what sense does it make to keep guns like this legal? If anyone can tell me a good reason to own a weapon or in some cases an entire collection of assault weapons, please tell me.

I live across the street from a young man (early 20's) living with his parents. He has a collection of such weapons (all purchased legally) and he isn't afraid to let the neighborhood know that he owns these weapons. A few neighbors simply ignore him, but another (older) neighbor just bought a similar weapon "just in case" this young man decides to anything silly (his words). What in the world is happening to people???

You can't be serious!!! Do you really believe Florida has the most violant crime in the country? If it's so bad leave and go to a safer place, say LA, Chicago, Washungton DC they have strick gun laws you'll be real safe there.

Carla you can't be serious. If your afraid please move to LA,Washington DC, Chicago they have tough gun laws I'm thinking you'll feel much safer there. I know I'll feel better when your gone.

Oh c'mon Bill Priesmeyer .. do you really care what I think?

A recent article listed Florida as one of the top five states for violent crime .. I didn't write the article, but I'm only quoting what it said. What I "believe" about it doesn't matter ..

Bill Priesmeyer .. why will YOU feel better when I'm gone?? Did you find a hair in your soup today? You sound a little cranky ..

Carla...have you been smoking crack? Where would you suggest us law-abiding, honest Floridians relocate to? Perhaps Chicago, Detroit, or Washington D.C.? Where do you hail from your highness? Please grace us peasants with you Royal wisdom...

Ron
Once you run, you will always run. Like a scared kid running from a bully , you have to stand up for yourself, protect your family and your country. and you can only do that with the 2nd amendment, to give every law biding citizen the wright to bear arms.If weapons were taken from the American people,what would we do if our country was invaded by other countries, answer, sit in your home and wait or where ever you might be and be hunted down and killed. Why ,because you don't have a weapon to protect you and your family. If the schools would hire security to patrol the grounds, people with the intent of doing bodily harm to others would be stopped wright there and then. not having to wait for the police to arrive 10 min later or the national guard.That is why we need to keep the 2nd amendment in place.You can't always count on law enforcement or military to be there in time. We the people have to able and have the wright to protect our selves.
Sincerely SGT Ron USMC Retired

To Mark . . please don't get your cute little granny panties in a bunch, but this is a quote from a US News article (May 7, 2012)

[quote] Louisiana Most Violent State in the U.S.
Tennessee, Nevada, Florida and Arizona round out the top 5 most violent states in the U.S.

Looking for a peaceful place to visit this summer? You might want to re-route your road trip and steer clear of Louisiana.

According to a recent report from the Institute for Economics and Peace, Louisiana was ranked America's most violent state for the 20th year in a row, based on homicide, violent crime and incarceration rates, as well availability of firearms.

Louisiana isn't the only state that has issues keeping the peace. Tennessee, Nevada, Florida and Arizona rounded out the top 5 most violent states, with Arizona recording the largest fall. [end quote]

The article goes on to say that Maine is the most peaceful state in the country.

RITE ON BUT THE BAD GUYS STEAL GUNS AND BUY THEM ON THE BLACK MARKET NO WAY U CAN STOP THAT 100 %

Yup and those background checks don't show manic depression, the person on meds or is bipolar or under a doctor's care do they? And the funny thing is, the people who use guns in crimes usually didn't have a criminal background.

So does drinking and driving causing unneeded deaths and harm but nobody is saying we should ban cars because people who drink and drive use bad judgement

THATS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE WILD WEST AND WE ARE ALL STILL HERE EXCEPT FOR A FEW BAD GUY LIKE JESSIE JAMES WHO DESERVE TO BE DEAD ANY WAYS

I would think that experience in law enforcement and the military gives you a very good ability to make judements in regard to firearms use. The actions that you list under "poor judgement" are not the typical actions of those who carry firearms, they are the actions of fools. Your argument isn't valid for one reason: A motor vehicle makes a much more dangerous weapon then any handgun and yet judgement obviously doesn't enter into the issuance of driver's licenses. If you think it does then go drive down Coretez Avenue around noon on any Saturday during snowbird season,

Your problem is that it is a right, and no matter WHAT you think you can't stop me from exercising it.

And that is never going to change. And it shouldn't, either.

"Have you ever noticed that after a shooting spree, they always want to take guns away from the people that didn't do it?" ~ William Burroughs

Ron
I would like to have judgement, when a barrel is pointed in my face or my family.

I stand with Bill Mertz

RITE ON BUDDY I AGREE WITH U 100 %

The right wasn't given to us by our Founders, it was endowed by Nature and Nature's God, and it was endowed in everybody living anywhere on this planet.

It was our Founders that recognized this and prohibited the U.S. government from infringing it.

Not that the government listens very well, however.....

Well said. However the Founding Fathers implemented the 2nd Amendment because they were afraid that the British (who we had just kicked out) might come back, and they did in 1912, or that there might be British sympathizers living in the new U.S.A. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble the Brits don't want to invade us anymore.

Grace, so the Brits don't want to invade let's just eliminate that ammendment?? That's a great theory, do away with old ammendments because some self-righteous lib thinks we don't need it any more. Seems like that's the way this country is currently being run anyway, if the prez thinksna law is unjust he tells his buddy in the Justice Dept not to enforce it. Maybe you should lropose that idea to your local representative and see if we can get that put to a floor vote in the house.
Gimme a break.

Switzerland's government issues every adult a gun and trains them to use it. Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime of any civilized country in the world.

You nailed it Bill!

RITE ON THE COPS ARE NEVER THERE WHEN U NEED THEM ANY WAYS AND THEY ALWAYS GET THERE TO LATE

That's true to an extent. The answer, though, is to legislate the universal carry of guns everywhere, including schools. Fact: Only a good gun will stop a bad one.

Too many of us shooting ourselves, etc.? There are over 300 MILLION people living in this country, to severely restrict the rights of 299,999,750 just because 250 morons have no self control is absurd. Besides, even out of those morons, most of the time the guns they fired inappropriately were illegal. Read the entire story of those news items and you'll see it mentioned somewhere stuck in a middle paragraph or even in a later article in a follow up story if it was deemed newsworthy enough.

Uh, you can get a Florida gun permit ONLY if you are a permanent resident of Florida. This applies to all other states too. You sound like you are about ten years old.

Funny that in countries with gun control, they have less crime! I am not saying no guns, I am saying responsibility. And crime taking over America and our freedom? Give me a break. The crime that goes on now is white collar, involving money and then now and again some psycho who shouldn't have access to a gun, gets a legal permit, as long as he can sign his name and then shoots up a school or a mall. OMG those poor little children. Now the man's brother said he had mental problems, but he did have a gun permit though!

Time to come out of your bubble Grace and put down the NY Times while you're at it. To begin with, you makenit sound as though there is no crime in these 'other'countries. Did it ever occur to you the extent of police monitoring that goes on in these other countries? It is precisely gecause of people such as yourself that police in this country have been playing catch-up for 40 years. Not to mention that with the exception of China, Russia and India we have a significantly larger population than these 'other countries'. A population that has been swelled by illegal immigration that's been tolerated for far too long. Included among that population are millions of drug users and abusers, the numbers of whom are larger than the populations of 'those countries'. Much of the gun crime you cite is caused directly by drugs, either by gang violence from turf wars or down to the lonely drug user who wants a quick buck for their next fix.
As for this POS coward in CT, it was his mother who had the permit not him.

RITE ON BABY

Cora, the "conventional wisdom" is that the sheeple will freak out if they see someone walking down the street, or sitting next to them at Denny's, or attending their church openly carrying a gun. That's why Florida mandates that guns be carried concealed.

There is something to that arguement, but there shouldn't be. If people hadn't been brainwashed into the "no guns" mentality, it wouldn't be an issue.

Since it is an issue, though, concealed carry seems to be an acceptable alternative as opposed to no carry at all.

Only takes one

NBC Chicago: "Among what are considered Alpha world cities, Chicago has the highest murder rate -- higher even than the Third World metropolises of Mexico City and Sao Paolo."
If gun control works so well, why does the American city with th
e strictest gun laws have the highest murder rate in the world?

More: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Deadliest-Global-City-163874546.html

"Felons traditionally come from democratic voting blocs" says University of Michigan sociologists http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE89N1C620121024?irpc=932

Sandi, so whats your point? Nearly as many childern drown in swimming pools each yr then are killed with guns ( CDC data). So I guess it only takes one pool so will you ban all pools? What about alcohol?

Very true Robert. Unfortunately, we have foolish people like Sandi saying "It only takes one". By her logic we need to outlaw EVERYTHING. Even churches would be shut down because of a few bad apples. Cars would need to be banned because a few people use them to run from police after committing a crime. Schools would need to close because of a few teachers' lack of ethics. Where does it end Sandi? Think (while sober) about what you are saying Sandi.

AND THEY TEXT ON THERE CELLS PHONE AND TALK ON THE CELL PHONES AND CAUSE MOST OF THE FATAL ACCIDENTS IN FLORIDA TO HIT MOTORCYLES BECAUSE THEY CARE MORE ABOUT TALKNG INSTEAD OF PAYING ATESTION TO DRIVINGGGGG

Charles, these people they they know better than everyone else, that we're so stupid we need the nanny government to legislate and regulate to protect us from ourselves. We're incapable of making sound decisions so the government will do that for us.

Absolutely right Sam! Especially the part about the media not wanting to report when someone successfully defends themselves with a gun against a crime. The media is nearly all left-leaning Liberals and they constantly manipulate what they report so they can manipulate weak minded people to support their perverted, anti-American agendas. People need to realize guns aren't evil, people using them for evil are, and only people using guns for good can stop them. The "Gun Genie" has been out of the proverbial bottle for a long time. There's no putting it back. People need to realize that. Embrace your guns for the good they can do, rather than condemn them for the harm they can do if in the wrong hands.

Exactly correct. Criminals and loony toons are the problem, not everybody else.

I agree completely Hall. I have also been the victim of crime on more than one occasion, although not a gun crime as you were.

Your comment might have a little more influence if it made any sense at all. Try learning proper English before you try to change the laws in MY country, ok?

"A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and substantial reason' why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs." - Judge Benson Everett Legg
for the U.S. 4th District, Woollard v. Sheridan

Dharma - you ask "how often do you hear of anyone having to defend their homes with a weapon?" The answer is not as often as it happens because the Liberal media intentionally ignores those type of stories because they are counter to their agenda. They want to manipulate people's minds, such as they appear to have done with you.

in the usa ... (florida isnt alone usa) 30 deaths a day by gun in the usa. 200 deaths a month by gun in the usa. 1100 deaths a year in the usa by gun.

Gun Control Stats.
Compare the Ten Big "Killers" in the US.

Tobacco Use 529,000
Medical Errors 195,000
Alcoholic Abuse 107,400
Motor Veh. Accidents 34,485
Unintentional Poisoning 31,758
Drug Abuse 25,500
Unintentional Falls 24,792
Non-Firearm Homicides 16,799
Firearm Homicides 11,493

*Acoording to the FBI, the #1 weapon used in violent crimes......is a baseball bat.
Why is there NO outcry to RESTRICT baseball bat ownership?
(Maybe because so many law-abiding citizens enjoy them safely, for sport? Hmmmm

**Deaths per year from selected causes: Sources: Centers for Disease Control, FBI, and the US Federal Government.

Joe's comment rocks! And incidentally, a friend of my son's dad murdered his mom with a baseball bat right here in Bradenton earlier this year.

Leroy, you can't do anything about it.

Wanna stop mall and school shootings? Allow the people who work there to carry firearms.

IN EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT OF MASS SHOOTINGS, THE COMMON DENOMITATOR IS THAT LAWFUL GUNS WERE NOT PERMITTED ON THE PREMISES.

Leroy - what does "oscene" mean? Is that a new word? $100 says you voted for Obama...lol

The answer is simple. It is not necessary for you or anybody else to agree that Americans have a right to arms for self-defense. Since it is a right, it is not subject to "democracy". The broad right of the people cannot be denied because of individual actions that constitute a tiny minority of the population. And, since it is a right, it is not for you or anyone else to determine whether or not others can exercise it.

That is just a fact. So, get used to it.

Learning is of no value in Florida....
Guns, not books are the holy grail here.

Appeals court overturns Illinois concealed carry law in gun rights victory

SPRINGFIELD - In a huge win for gun-rights groups, a divided federal appeals court in Chicago Tuesday tossed the state's ban on carrying concealed weapons and gave Illinois' Legislature 180 days to craft a law legalizing concealed carry.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2012/12/big_win_for_gun-rights_groups_federal_appeals_court_tosses_state_ban_on_carrying_concealed_weapons.html

Even better...students can now carry on campus. How special.

Under current law drinking and guns are mutually exclusive. You may carry a gun into a bar, but you may not drink.

Sandy I suggest you and marrill check your facts. In Florida one can not carry a firearm in a bar or school. Last time I checked guns didn't kill anyone it takes a person. Do autos get drunk and kill people ? Oh course not. So let's not talk about banning cars.

There are 4 states on the books where guns are allowed in bars

yES, THIS IDIOT WILL NEVER TOUCH A GUN AND AM PROUD OF IT AND YES,
4 STATES, NOT FLORIDA, ALLOW CONCEALED WEAPONS IN A BAR. AND AM NOT TALKING LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNELL

4 states allow concealed weapons in bars. And the way the trend is growing, I am sure that number will grow unless common sense takes over.

Yo, Leroy. You need to get with Otis McDonald had have a beer. Maybe he can open your eyes.

Leroy, ban knives???

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230

Don't forget, cameras cause child pornography.

In the hands of an unstable person, a pencil or a spoon is not a weapon. Come on.

Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun.

I'm sure the families of 27 dead people in Connecticut wish that whacko had had a pencil or spoon instead of a gun. But I guess it's too late for that now.

Since Terri and Joshie live under a rock:

Pencil NOT a weapon? Really?
www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/07/29/news/doc4e333400043ee288424574.txt

Heck, BAN SOUVENIRS!!!
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/window-cleaner-killed-himself-with-giant-205689

Spoon NOT a weapon?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378860/Alabama-man-takes-uncles-eyeballs-spoon-leaves-bin.html

Practically anything can be used as a weapon...........to believe the banning of guns will stop senseless murders is choosing to believe we can have some sort of Utopian world, which will NEVER happen due to everybody calling for Govt involvement in every single aspect of our lives.

And Joshie, most mental health care involves the use of Pyschotropic drugs...........which is the hallmark of this insanity. Do some research and you will see most people committing mass shootings or killing their own children are or were prescribed pharmaceutical drugs.

But what do I know, I actually research and read myself, as opposed to letting "experts" tell me what and how to think.

Criminals obey gun control laws in the same manner politicians follow their oaths of office!

i HAVE LIVED 77 YEARS IN cHICAGO, - nORTH sIDE, sOUTH sIDE, eAST sIDE ANDS wEST sIDE AND NEVER EVER HAD A GUN.

Joshie, most of those 77 years were probably before their gun ban! And maybe some of those victims families in CT had wished there was an armed resource officer on school grounds, ever think of that? Why is it that all of you people who think banning guns will stop or even slow down gun violence? The naivete is astounding, even more than usual.

Thank you Samuel. I'd declare "checkmate" if I were you!

If I would be around in 50 years when it will be 80 in December, then I might consider it. I love Chicago style pizzas but it's too cold there in the winter! :-) Then again in 50 years, most of FL wil be underwater anyway....

It figures. And you believed it word for word too I suppose? You probably saw Al Gore's film too and now donate half your income to saving the polar bears from global warming. Please stop and think for a minute about the 2 areas you're talking about here, Detroit and any town in Canada? You've got to be kidding, right? How many LEGAL guns do you think have been used to commit crimes in Detroit? I'll tell you what, all you libs, go ahead and mandate (if you can get it past the Supreme Court) the removal of every single gun held by Americans. Does your naivete really carry so far as to think gun violence will stop or even lessen? Its not the proliferation of guns in the US causing this violence, its the proliferation of bleeding hearts who give criminals more rights than law abiding citizens. This POS in CT used his mother's legal weapons for his evil acts. Do you think for 1 second that had his mother not had them he wouldn't have procured them some other way? People like him are bent on wanton destruction of life. The only people who could have prevented this was his family, not now but over his lifetime. Something they did/did not do over 20 years caused this.

If I hear the rights of a certain group of people, I will get sick. DOES NOT ANY ONE GIVE A "d>>." ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF CHILDREN JUST MIURDERED ONJ THE EVE OF CHRISTMAS. DOESNT ANY CARE? IF, SO, LET HIM OR HER SPEAK UP NOW. I HEAR NO DEFENSE OF THOSE CHIDREHN;. WE HAREW BECOMING A SELFISH NATION WITH A ME FIRST ATTITUDE.

If you are really worried about children.....try these statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. Latest figure was 2009. Lets worry about these kids who never received a chance to breathe one breath of the same air that you and I breathe!

In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2009 was 15.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 227 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5% and the abortion ratio decreased 2%. The change from 2008 to 2009 represented the largest single year decrease in the total number and rate of reported abortions for the entire period from 2000 to 2009. Additionally, from 2000 to 2009 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for this entire period.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

Did you really say ''only''?? REALLY??? And who are YOU that you are privy to who had permits and who didn't?? And even so, Most owners of guns have permits but fail to keep them locked up. And most motorcycle either try to own the road or drive like idiots who think they are in armored cars. But we're all supposed to watch out for them. Never saw a courteous motorcycle driver in my life! Murderers do NOT steal a spoon that is not locked up and feed their victims until they're so heavy they have a heart attack. Cars can kill but it's kinda hard to drive them into a mall or school.. AAAHHHHHH, but those guns, 7500 of them that you BRAG is ONLY 7500. Oh how quickly they can kill lots of children. But feel safe out there everyone because BHirsh is excercising his right to have a gun. He'll protect us. Wont you BHirsh and all your gun wielding friends!

Hi Barbara, guns are just tools that in the right hand can save lives, free and keep nations free! In the wrong hands can be indiscriminately used to take lives and enslave nations, but either way it is always the person behind the gun that is responsible not the gun, We can not, nor ever will, idiot proof the world and the fact remains that taking guns away would leave ALL of the law abiding unable to defend themselves against the will of those who remain armed, be it bad guys or bad government, and that is NOT a risk worth taking. I fully support private ownership of assault weapons and high capacity clips because others have them and we should not be denied equal or superior protections. I too am disturbed over these senseless killings, its a horror!
FYI: the NRA is not a true friend to gun owners in America, they are the wolf in sheeps clothing, sure they do some good and outwardly pretend to defend the 2nd amendment but at the core they are run by conservative republicans, ex-military, ex-government people and have legislated away more gun rights than they have protected.
I too would like to live in a society where there was no violence, no fear, with only joy and happiness, but that is just a dream because we have made so many laws attempting to force others to behave the way we want them to that we have lost our own freedoms :(

You are so right. "Bearing arms" never would have included AK47's and the automatic assault weapons we see so prevalant in our society.

Spoken like a true jarhead

Just got mine in the mail last week. Have at least a dozen friends who have one as well.

With a population less than 1/10 of Tampa. I don't know if that really is a good sample size. Though I agree with the 2nd Admendment I don't know if Kennesaw is an really good example of what you are trying to proof. Their median household income is almost twice Tampa's median household income. There are other cultural and economic elements that go into Kennesaw reduction in Crime other than gun laws. Also the unemployment rate is lower than the state average and is showing growth. I just find it as a limited sample to make a case based on.

The words you expressed is like a breath of fresh air. I am sick and tired of the gibberish arguement of guns do not kill, people do. I am sick and tired of the arguement of rights being lost or taken away in the 2nd amendment. More gibberish.
No one talks about the rights of those small children who will never ever celebrate
Christmas. More gibberish about protecting ourselves from bad guys. Its the good guys that are the worrisome. Alll the last several shooters were good guys getting
weapons legally. Now with one million permits in one state an army couold be formed bigger than some countries have.
Your are right. This is un-acceptable and our state and federal governmens have to step up to the plate. Society has to step up to the plate.or will be just like the last days of pompei.

tHANKS FOR CORRECTING MY TYPO ERROR. i MEANT TO TYPE 11000
GUN DEATHS NATIONALLY AS OPPOSED TO 1100, I MISTYPED. I MADE THAT ERROR SEVERAL PLACES. ERROS LOIKE THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
AGAIN 12,000 FLU DEATHS ACROSS THE COUNTY WOULD BRING HEADLIHNES, 12,000 GUN DEATHS NOT A WHISPER. - JUST ANOTHER GUN SHOT JUST ANOTHER LOSS, JUST ANOTHER MOTHERS GRIEF. BUT I GUESS ONES RIGHTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT. THANKS FOR THE CATCH IN MY EROR.

You have said is the truth. All the NRA wants is a bag full of money What they should do is spend their profits and go to Ct and vist tjhe families who have lost children to a madness by making a donation im memoriam to children who have lost their rights. We are more concerned with hiding behind the rights of the 2nd amendment than the rights of children. Me becomes first. Is this what we become over the years. And the lunacy behind this is the fact 4 states allow weapons in bars.
What next a license to kill?

Unfortunately, Leroy, your numbers are inaccurate. In the United Sates today 34 of our citizens die from gun violence which would make the annual number of gun related deaths 12,410. The gun manufacturers are making record profits and the FBI reported processing 154,000 or so background checks on Black Friday alone this year. The fact that 40% of gun sales transactions are illegal is very frightening too. The problem isn't if guns are illegal, then only criminals will have guns. The real problem is that criminals and mentally unbalanced individuals have the same or greater access to guns as law abiding sane people. Insanity! You betcha.

Listen genius, WE didn't let it happen, his parents were the cause of this. Let's put the responsibility where it really lies. Typical libtard bs, always blaming others, no personal responsibility. THAT'S why this country is where its at today.

Gun Control Stats.
Compare the Ten Big "Killers" in the US.

Tobacco Use 529,000
Medical Errors 195,000
Alcoholic Abuse 107,400
Motor Veh. Accidents 34,485
Unintentional Poisoning 31,758
Drug Abuse 25,500
Unintentional Falls 24,792
Non-Firearm Homicides 16,799
Firearm Homicides 11,493

*Acoording to the FBI, the #1 weapon used in violent crimes......is a baseball bat.
Why is there NO outcry to RESTRICT baseball bat ownership?
(Maybe because so many law-abiding citizens enjoy them safely, for sport? Hmmmm

**Deaths per year from selected causes: Sources: Centers for Disease Control, FBI, and the US Federal Government.

If you are really worried about children's deaths.....try these statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. Latest figure was 2009. Lets worry about these kids too....who never received a chance to breathe one breath of the same air that you and I breathe!

In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2009 was 15.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 227 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5% and the abortion ratio decreased 2%. The change from 2008 to 2009 represented the largest single year decrease in the total number and rate of reported abortions for the entire period from 2000 to 2009. Additionally, from 2000 to 2009 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for this entire period.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

I hope they find comfort in a God who many will blame for this tragedy, but in truth He is a God who has told us to 'beat your swords (or guns) into plowshares and your spears (or knives ) into pruning shears. Neither learn war anymore.; But the gun-hungry mongrels of Florida don't care what he thinks anyway. It's all about them and their rights.

Now that I can agree with, Carla.

These other countries you try to stand behind don't have a fraction of the population we do, have very strict immigration policies and have laws allowing tighter police surveillance of private citizens, something you libtards were responsible for putting in place to begin with.

How many timesndonyou want tomsay it LeRoy? You cannsay 'children were murdered'a thousand times and it won't bring them back, won't change anything, won't prevent you pacifists from trying to impose your anti gun views on others. 1 other important point you anti gun people are conveniently, or ignorantly, leaving out when you bring other countries into this argument is that they don't have a Bill Of Rights (nor are they a representative republic) or a United States Constitution. We follow our laws, not those of Europe. Or at least we're supposed to. The current administration likes to pick and choose which laws the king wants to follow.

I do not think people get into cars to kill someone. Accidents happen. Fires. Hurricanes. you name it. They kill. Accidents. Pulling the trigger on a giun kills.
deliberty.
Do you want to soa problem. I will ask you questions.
Do you think it is right for states to allow people to walk into a bar, drink, leave droive a car and carry a weapon. Is that a right?
If your neighbor is actging strange like you have never seen before and you know he has a weapon or two, shoiuld you report himn.
A person dpown the street acts strangeway out ot being normal but no weapon you know of. Should you report him?
And thge list of questions could go on and you say no to all of them, then you do not ewant to so;yoyu do not wnt to solve a thing. You just wahnt to pull a trigger and that solves everythin
No one wants to take away your rights. but you have to take tresponsibility or your are just as guilty as murdering innocent children as the next one. Lisaten to your conscience or listwn to the gibberish of the NRA or your own voice. Look at your own family and make a choice. If you love your family, you know what choices there are

Sammy, speaking of the Swiss, isn't each household required to have a gun? I may be wrong on that but I'd swear I read about it once.

So, how would you craft that legislation? I'm real curious to see your solution. Other than banning assault weapons M16s, AK47s and the like.
And those of you mocking and bashing FL gun laws, you seem to forget this happened in CT, not here. Not as easy as you may think to own a handgun there.
Norway doesn't strike me as being big on gun ownership yet that psycho still was able to procure a couple to use for his hour of death (and those geniuses gave him a whole 15 years for his evil deed).

The America Revolution ended in 1783, the Navy and the Marines were disbanded and the Bill of Rights was finally ratified in 1787. So the Founding Fathers were NOT worried about the British when the Bill of Rights was passed...They WERE worried that the government they had just constructed would become evil and overpower the people. The people needed to have the means to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, and the 2nd Amendment serves to protect ALL of our rights.

By god... I WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO BAR THOSE TYPE OF WEpons The NRA is sick and hope the CEO does not have weapon because he is mentallly unfir for sucjh a weapon, THE GUY SHOULD BE LOCKED UP SOMEWHERE

See, Carla, here's your problem. In 1939, the SCOTUS heard a case called U.S. v. Miller. The court held that since absent any evidence that the sawed-off shotgun at issue was a type of weapon "in common use" that "bear[s] some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia", keeping and bearing it wasn't protected by the Second Amendment. In so ruling, it set the definition in precedent (later cited by the Court in D.C. v. Heller) for the types of small arms that were guaranteed by the right. The Bushmaster .223 rifle is "in common use" and "bears some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia". In other words, it is EXACTLY the kind of firearm we have the right to keep and bear. The same goes for semiautomatic pistols.

Now, you (and others) may not like that, but that definition is what the Court ruled in 1939, and was cited in the 2008 Heller decision that set the guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes in precedent.

It is the law of the land.

Since that is the case, no matter how much you people scream and gnash your teeth and wring your hands, the semiautomatic arms that are in circulation and are being currently produced are protected arms under the Second Amendment.

That is the state of the law.

It is guns like these that are protected, SPECIFICALLY, by the Second Amendment.

Small arms "in common use" that "bear[s] some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia" is the definition set in precedent by the SCOTUS in U.S. v. Miller, cited in D.C. v. Heller. Since these weapons fit that description PRECISELY, they are off limits viz gun banning.

It ain't 1994 anymore, baby.

Carla, can't disagree with what you say. Maybe that's the route to take. Specifically name certain weapons on a ban list, kind of like my son's $300 baseball bat that was banned by the NCAA. They have a ban list for bats, why not for guns. Seems reasonable.

If they are really worried about children.....try these statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. Latest figure was 2009. Lets worry about these kids too....who never received a chance to breathe one breath of the same air that you and I breathe!

In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2009 was 15.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 227 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5% and the abortion ratio decreased 2%. The change from 2008 to 2009 represented the largest single year decrease in the total number and rate of reported abortions for the entire period from 2000 to 2009. Additionally, from 2000 to 2009 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for this entire period.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

Allie's Grandpa, it "sounds" like Pres. Obama may be thinking about doing something about this ... will just have to wait and see what it might be.

I agree....if you are really worried about children being killed.....try these statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. Latest figure was 2009. Lets worry about these kids too....who never received a chance to breathe one breath of the same air that you and I breathe! Over 65 times the deaths of gun deaths. Where do you stand with those figures?

In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2009 was 15.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 227 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5% and the abortion ratio decreased 2%. The change from 2008 to 2009 represented the largest single year decrease in the total number and rate of reported abortions for the entire period from 2000 to 2009. Additionally, from 2000 to 2009 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for this entire period.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/Abortion.htm

Joe, you are really a perverted individual, who passes over the reality of the murder of these children, by assault weapons, in order to promote your own views about a totally unrelated matter.

Have you no shame, sir?

Hey Old Timer - that ban was lifted because it did not achieve its intended results. Gun crimes did not decline then, and there is nothing to indicate repeating that experiment would produce different results (except in your wishful imagination).

Hey Chuck, what the ...., are you saying that if guns are outlawed anyone possesssing a gun would be an outlaw? Let's be realistic here, how many legal gun owners would voluntarily give up their guns if they were outlawed tomorrow? Wouldn't this just create a lot more outlaws with guns? No need to worry or lie awake at night Chuck, no one is going to come and take your precious guns away, unless you're a felon, been arrested or convicted of a drug offense or have been adjudicated to be mentally defective (incompetent to manage one's own affairs) by a judge or there is a record of you being involuntarily committed to a mental health facility and/or being ordered by the court to receive mental health treatment you can legally own a gun. Hopefully, you don't fall within any of these catagories, Chuck because there are many out there who have mental health issues that have never been diagnosed. The real problem is, with enough guns to arm every man, woman and child currently living in America, to many "outlaws" or those with bad intentions can too easily obtain weapons to carry out acts of violence against peaceful law abiding citizens. And many of these citizens are gun owners also. Perhaps, they couldn't draw their weapons fast enough or were poor marksmen. So, what are your solutions to the senseless tragedies caused by gun violence Chuck, or are you also just part of the problem too? Would anyone like more guns? Why, yes I'll have another one, please. Absurdly ridiculous!

Thank you for the reply, David. I think you have misunderstood. That cliche' merely states that when good men give up their arms in an effort to comply with the law, the bad men will still have them, or get their hands on them when needed. I know it's an over simplification.

You didn't disagree with the current status of the gun laws, so no argument there. I heard on the radio today that Lanza tried to buy a gun and was denied, which is why he took them from his mother, I imagine. So there you have it. The gun laws worked. It was the people factor that failed.

I am not part of the problem. I don't even have malice toward animals or bugs, let alone people. I do offer a solution, which would have been useful in the Lanza scenario. I'm speculating a little bit, but I think if the young man had committed, loving, involved parents, this particular disaster may have been averted.

You sir, are an idiot. I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in brother, but government does hold superior firepower over the people. Bombers, fighter-jets, cruise missiles, predator drones and nuclear weapons have far superior firepower. By your logic, every citizen lawfully should be able to posess nukes too? Step back from the pipe, Bulldog, it is addling your brain and affecting your cognative ability to think clearly and rationally.

as to never seeking treatment, that is so off the charts of course they do and the new meds are making them sicker and if u haven’t listened to the ads on tv, if you feel like killing yourself or others contact your doctor. well mental illness doesn’t give that option to the true mentally ill. its just another day of hell for them to live in. address that fact the help for them was taken away in 1980s and never replaced with help that is workable. and the families that live with this are amazingly strong to keep up with it. as to those who are "termed" mentally ill they are not that, they are people who have problems working in the world for many reasons. but the true mentally ill patients can hold out for so long before they fall totally apart and there is no help for them. anywhere. work in the field and see what the actual help isnt.

(just my opinion) but this isn't about abortion. I'm not against owning a gun for protection, but something needs to be done to stop the sale of military type weapons that can "plow down" dozens of people in a matter of seconds. Can anyone give me a good REASON why anyone would want weapons like these in their homes?

Go to the Westboro Bapistist Church Joe? Going to protest some funderals this week. Because you sounds just like those people. Let me guess this was God's way of punishing us for Gay Marriage, Abortions, and direct Sin.

Why don't you take your sick and absurd obsession with abortion, Joe, totally unrelated to the shooting of little kids, and obsess somewhere else where it is appropriate.

Whether or not someone understands the absurdity of allowing access to assault weapons by anyone but our Armed Forces and Police, is unrelated to questions of abortion or contraception or whether you worship in a church or a synagogue or a mosque.

Oh, by the way, even people who do worship in each of those have varying opinions on questions like abortion, and even within that sub-set there are those who favor very limited abortion rights (such as only in the first trimester, or, after the first trimester, to prevent the death or serious injury to the pregnant woman) or those who favor virtually no limits on abortion rights.

But this is NOT about abortion.

It is about the shooting of children and adults with assault weapons, which allowed the shooter to not only murder the twenty children and six adults, but even, as the press has reported this morning, to fire up to eleven bullets in some of his tiny victims.

Hey Joe, why don't you pull your head out of your ass and go write a Blog post about your issue in the proper venue. Your just pissing everyone off and making them wish your mother had aborted you. Let me be clear so you'll understand this, dumbass, please abort yourself from this forum.

The 2nd amendment refers to a "well regulated militia" but the Supreme Court has held that the right to bear arms is not conditioned on militia participation and is an individual right subject to reasonable regulations by both the states and federal governments.

Hal,
Actually that is not in full what the Supreme Court has held. That is why their is a distinction. And multiple rulings on the difference of the two. But it is the initial parts of it and what determines reasonible?
Thank you for a thought out reply.

I totally agree, RD .. I'm not totally against guns, but assault type weapons should be banned.

I'm an "older" lady living alone and I REFUSE to live in FEAR .. fear of such things as the government taking us over with weapons, or the odd chance that some gang will invade my house in the middle of the night, etc. I absolutely refuse to dwell on FEAR and what "might" happen.

And I have NEVER considered having a gun in my entire life.

And yet, I can totally understand it if someone would want a simple handgun if it eases their anxieties about any fear they may have of possibly being attacked ... but a "military type" weapon??? Or a collection of such weapons?? NO!

So far .. NO ONE here has offered ONE solitary reason to own these weapons. Why are semiautomatics & "military type" weapons BETTER to have in the house for protection than a simple gun?

If these types of guns were banned, WHY would they be missed?

How cold hearted to discount deaths from suicide so callously, Bob. Yes, when one wishes to really harm themselves fatally, they will often find a way. However, one of the reasons suicides are this prevalent is that guns are so easy to use with such deadly force and finallity. How many people would still be alive today had they not had easy access to a gun and instead sought help for their internal pain and suffering? You are part of the problem because you obviously only care about yourself and your guns at the expense of everyone else. Selfish! Have you no humanity sir?

S. Ripley, you just said it all .. that's so true.

Everyone's guns are NOT going to be taken away but I do believe there WILL be a ban on assault weapons in the near future . . the sooner the better.

(PS. I am not anti-gun and I am not against having a gun for protection)

Mr. Ed Harris, With all due respect..It seems that you are basing your opinion on something other than facts. Why would people lose respect for the deadliness of their weapons just because they own more than a squirrel rifle? How do you know that people who buy guns for their collection do not understand their use or how to properly maintain them? Todays cost of ownership dictates that these tools are properly cared for..and I don't associate with anyone who handles them with your sense of a lack of safety. The founders of our nation wrote that they feared that government would over reach their lawful role and that freemen would need to retake control of that government IF they were to remain free. The first thing Adolph Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Castro did when they took over the government was to disarm the people. Based upon you assertion...freedom of the press and freedom of religion only belong to moderates?

Mr Conkle, Somewhere along the path of life you apparently did NOT learn to play nicely with anyone who did not share your opinions...Name calling always makes the caller sound simple minded and that act completley destroys any credibility you may have had while you were trying to make a point.

Richard,
That's not the reason. It is the fearmonigering that the media and other sources make to make people feel forced to own a gun. Which to them I say thank you.

Jim only needs a pistol, and not a Glock with a magazine of twenty rounds, nor does he need a Bushmaster assault rifle.

Let's get serious on the issues, and stop overplaying our hands; you don't have to remove "guns", just assault weapons.

And it is NOT a matter of selling assault weapons to only non-crazies, or anyone else who can't/shouldn't pass a background check.

Weapons can be stolen, whether from a known person or family member or just a burglary opportunity, and that means that a future loonie just like the Newtown shooter would be able to kill large numbers of people in a short period of time.

We are trying to eliminate the potential for massacres, like the twenty children and six adjusts in Newtown, and getting rid of assault weapons would do that.

That is what a good pump action shotgun is for. Most criminals are scare of that than a assualt rifle anyway.

Ripley,
Way too ration. Don't you know we are in a fear driven society?

That is my case. You may be the one in a million who knnow how to use aweapon.

But can you say the same for the oher millions. Most people run out and buy a gun and think they are an expert Very few out of the millions really know 100% , more than the secret service, more than the Pentagon, knoew nothing more than if it moves aim and shoot

No one wants to take that hand gun from you. We just don't want people to buy assault weapons at Wal-Mart. It seems like some gun owners, like yourself, realize the sanity of that line of reason. It is the wacko fringe that are all up in arms about fearing that they can't stockpile a small armory of over the top killing tools that common sense has an issue with.

Because gun sales and crime rates have a exclusive relationship and no other factors have to do with either one of those factors. Because crime rates were dropping also during the decade of the assualt weapon ban. So what is the reason for that. Only two years in the last 20 has their been an increase in crime in florida both overall and per capa. The first was the two years before the assualt weapons ban in 1992 and the other the year after the ban was removed 2005. So for those 20 years, half with the ban and half without the bann it has been decreasing.
So do you have any other agruments? Because this one is slightly flawed.

The nra will destroy themselves by their own words & actions.

And, this is supposed to affect MY rights, HOW?

Bhirsh says that common sense has nothing to do with natural rights. OK, enough said? These people keep talking about the constitution like it is the gospel of American politics written by the hand of man dictated by GOD. No one is talking about subverting freedom. We just want safe streets. If people only bear arms for peaceful purposes that would be a good thing, but we live in the REAL world. These people think they need to defend themselves against others 24/7. It is them that I fear. It wasn't a criminal that shot another citizen down on a basketball court over a kid skateboarding. It wasn't a criminal that shot a teenager visiting his parents because he was wearing a hoodie & refused to take profiling abus from a 1/2 baked would be cop. It isn't criminals that go off in road rage & shoot innocent motorists that happen to cut in too close in traffic. The founding fathers didn't envision a shooting gallery America. Common sense must prevail. Assault weapons are over the top insanity on the street, in movie theaters, & school rooms. It's time for BIG BROTHER to take charge because LITTLE BROTHER has proven himself to be too dangerous to himself & others.

Mr. Mirra, You are incorrect...you said that it wasn't a criminal that shot another citizen down on a basketball court over a kid skateboarding. THAT SHOOTER WAS A CRIMINAL..as adjudged during his trial. Although the facts are still unknown, the pictures that were released of the bloodied Zimmerman could lead one to believe that that shooter was in fear for his life. The un-warranted showing of a weapon is a criminal act let alone the un-warranted firing of a weapon...so your "road rage shooter" is a criminal. Your desire to have "Big Brother" take over is far dangerous than a private citizen owning any sort of legal weapon.

Mr. Mirra, Your stated premise in your first paragraph regarding the 2nd Amendment and it's intent to provide a means for "We the People" to protect our Liberties is correct. The second paragraph of your post then tells us that we wouldn't be able to resist our government due to the weapons at their disposal; However, you seem to overlook real life examples of the People's battles to overcome destructive governments...Just look at Syria today. Syria used tanks, helicopter- gunships, jet aircraft, real automatic weapons, artillery, and armed & trained troops. The People of Syria are on the verge of overthrowing a terrible dictator who killed thousands of his own people. Where would those people be without their weapons and the will to fight against oppression? If Hitler had NOT disarmed Germany, would he have been able to just march the Jews into the ovens...I think not. Heaven forbid that "We the People" would ever find our great nation in the hands of a dictator who would work to destroy our individual rights and liberty.

B.W Venables doesn't seem tp realize that the first part of what I wrote was not my comment. It was BHirsh's comment. The second paragraph was my response.
To the comment about Syria> The only reason the syrian government hasn't enialated the opposition is because humanitarian nations, like US, won't untie the Government's hands. What foriegn government will stop the US Govenment from sending cruise missle smart bombs right into the Subversive Anti American Malitia Headquates at will? You people dream of revolution. Dream on.We tried it 40-45 years ago & when they began to take us seriosly, they snuffed the revolution out.
We need Big Brother to step in here because the gun mentality is subversive. That's why you fear having your weapons taken away. It messes with your revolution games & hits you with reality.
The founding fathers were not profits of God writing some gospel of Government. They were a bunch of rich white men that didn't want to pay their taxes that rose up against the established order in unlawful violence. They proposed a guidline that fit 250 years ago. Times change.

Michael, times change, principle doesn't.

What, we're supposed to roll over and say "OK, go ahead and rape me."? You know, like women are supposed to blow a whistle or scream like hell or even puke, but God forbid they should ever DEFEND themselves?

What kind of proletarian troll ARE you, anyway?

Leroy, you are free to make that choice for yourself. You are not free to make it for anyone else.

First, it is breaking the law to consume liquor in a bar and carry a concealed weapon in all but four states, but the "good" guys do it anyway. It is no different than driving a car under the influence. It is breaking the law, and the "good" guys do it anyway.
So...I find it a bit un-nerving knowing when at any given moment a "good" guy can snap while carrying at every waking moment, carrying a weapon. And with so many weapons lying around like candy in a candy dish, the killings will continue
and it will not make a difference then who ithe good or bad guy is. And when one any public area, wether it be on a bus, mall, or anywhere someone is on the brink and no one wants to address that issue of solving problems of the mentally disturbed able to purchase weapons.

What about the guy carrying legally that shot his neighbor dead on a basketball court over a skateboarder, the 1/2 baked, would be cop, that shot a teenager because he was wearing a hoodie & objected to being profiled & harrased, the idiot that shoos someone because they cut too close in traffic, or now armed school teachers that might just go off someday because he percieves a threat that's not there?
Besides, no one needs assault weapons unless they want to assault someone.

Teachers are supposed to teach and not be trained
armed security guards. And where is the teachers union on that one?
If I were a teacher in Utah acting as a security guard plus teaching,
I would demand what a security guard would get plus teachers salary.
Why is it when Hostess Co went bankrupt, one reason was no drivers
could deliver Wonder Bread and Twinkies on the same truck. One truck for each.
But a teacher has to be a teacher and a security guard. The leaders of today are a product of yresterdays school. Both have failed.

That is a subject I have not read about or even thought about. People carrying a concealed weapon at place of employment. I have been working before retiring
for almost 50 years and the question was never brought up. But that was then and this is now. 30,000 gun related deaths each year. In ten years that is 300,000
people. Many places, if not all, smoking is prohibited on company grounds, what about carrying a concealed weapon?

Why not have all gun owners be forced to wear an armband or even get a tatoo on their forehead warning us of their gun possession? Then most people would turn in their firearms and we would have a peaceful society.
The reality is that this latest incident will be soon be forgotten and no changes will be made. I doubt the average non-gun owner realizes how the governments talk has
created a run on weapons, ammo, and magazines. Web sites are sold out, gun shops sold out, and ammo sales way up. The anti gun crowd has done more to increase gun sales than the NRA could ever do.

Tell us, Michael, do you launder your own brown shirts, or have they done at the dry cleaner?

The law doesn't say that private citizens have the right to arm themselves with weapons that can kill in mass. That' the right wing interpertation of the law. what the law does say is that the supream Court can interpert the law. If thy should cooose to interpert it diff. than you, you are then a lawbreaker & the government can decide what penelty they decide to lay on you. I hope they make all existing assault weapons a violation punishable by $1,000 fine & 6 months jail time per each count. Then you can cry that theybroke the law till kngdom come , but your gun nuts will be doing the time & paying the fines.

You are kidding, of course.

I don't think Dunedin is kidding. It sounds like the nra mentality. When I was young, my next door neighbor bought his teenage kids 22 caliber fire arms because he said he wanted them to learn to shoot. After that, I often found dead birds in my backyard. These people are over the top crazy.

They just blow off the lives lost as non important. To really face the issue would mean that they can't play tin soldier anymore. They therfore spin the Constitution to insanly try to justify why they can arm to the teeth. The fact that thier HOBBY puts kill power in the hands on crazys over & over again is dicounted by them. They choose not to recognize the insanity of it because it suits them not to.

Could we just make Obama "President for Life"? The government will protect us, right? The government took care of us at Kent state, Ruby Ridge, Texas, and 911.in NY. Peace on earth.

Michael...I never realized that a single individual was able to gulp down that much Kool Aid! Either you are completely brainwashed and oblivious to everything happening in the world today, or you are actually a Conservative playing a joke with that ridiculous comment to see how many responses you get.

MARK , I'm oblivious to the Faux News Prpoganda mill that you seem to be twisted by. Your term of COOL AID is from Fuax News. Obama refuses to act like the war monger you think America is. That's why he has regained respect for us. Instead of looking like the All American Bullet Headed administration that almost bankrupted us with imperialistic nation building abroad, he spent the $ as a stimulis that kept the auto industry from failing that would have taken the country's economy down with it. He also made sure that everyone will get the equivalant of medicare protection, no matter what they make, or don't. NO loop holes for insurance companies to weasel out of covering pre-existing conditions. Let the fat cat employer corporations pay more. They screw their workers every chance they get. If Republicans were in power, we would be shooting live ammo at Iran & N. Korea. Obama ended the Gulf War killing of American youth & Iraqi freedom fighters. In Afganistan we are fighting the Talaban who were our ex allies when they fought Russia, but they are now a threat. We can't eliminate them, but we can ignore them & blow them up only if they attack us.
Obama has done so much good, I hope he helps take as many guns as possible off the streets. Then only criminals will have guns. That gives police more things to charge them with & hold them longer in jail, & protects us from crazies buying them at gun shows. This thread is about guns. Not Cool Aid.

Looks like it is Kool Aid poisoning Michael. You better get to your local emergency room quick and get your stomach pumped before it causes even more brain damage, although it may already be too late for you. You are living in a fantasy world if you think Obama has "saved the economy from disaster". Quite the contrary, he could not have done a better job at destroying it had he tried. (And to be honest - I think he did try and is about to succeed.)

Here lies the seperation of culture between each half of Americans. We exist in alternate universes. You see Obama as a curse upon our Nation, We see him as God's gift to America at just the time he was needed. You see Reagan as one of our best Presidents. We see him as the President that was thw worst SOB in power in the last Century. His name alone Ronald Wilson Reagan consists of 6 letters each fullfilling the profecy that the anti Christ would rise from the sea of politics & beguile the people. His name would be 666. This is supposed to be about gun control, but it all stems from the same alternate view of life.

Michael, you believe that because Reagan's names each had 6 letters in them that he is the Anti-Christ? You just confirmed it - you ARE living in a fantasy world! You need to watch "Obama's America 2016" and see where his views stem from. Hint: it's not from America. He is Hell bent on destroying our country and gun control is a key component of his plan. Study history and you will see that one of the first steps every dictator who has sought to seize control of a nation has taken was to disarm its citizens. This story has been played repeatedly in the past and it must not be allowed to happen again, here in the greatest nation that has ever existed.

Mark basing you opinion on Obama using "Obama 2016" is as flawed as using "Freigheit 911" to form your opinion on Bush. Both are movies that sell opinions as facts. If you believe Dinesh D'Souza (author and director) so much you also believe that a woman's place is in the home and that we are the cause of the 9/11 attacks. He is as much of a blowhard as Michael Moore.

Michael Mirra,
Just because Reagan had 6 letters in each of his three names doesn't mean he was a bad president.
Reagan was a president that fit the time he was president and did his job well. George H. W. Bush is really an underrated president, who started the economy upswing, but increasing the taxation of the upper class to spur growth in the private sector (strange how Republicans fight that now). Clinton just continued and increased the principles of Reaganomics following the lead of George H. W. Bush which led to a surpluss. The issues we have are the fact that George W. Bush went away from those principles. Nothing happens in a vaccuum, Clinton had a successful administration, but the ground work was laid by the presidents before him.

Reagan being named 666 is just me fooling around. I know he wasn't the antiChrist. I hated him though, long before he was President, he earned the contempt of the extream left when, as govornor of California, he called in the national guard & threw the street people out of People's Park in Berkley. That ignited the Berkley riots. Then, as President, he fired all the air traffic controllers, he invaded Granada for no good reason & Americans were killed. He was also obviously senile as hell for his last term. His trickle down your leg economics helped big business, so the economy looked prosrerous, but the working man took the shaft during his terms. Call me crazy, but I liked when Carter negotiated the return of the hostoges, but Reagan took credit as they were released just about his inauguration day. I liked Carter. I'll always remember feeling hope in America at his convention when Ceaser Chavez spoke to a sea of waving Red flags.

We can debate Obama, Reagan, Carter, Bush, etc. That is getting off the topic. The topic here is wheather American need to continue to live in fear of their gun toting neighbors & what should be done to remove that danger from our Country.

What about the rights of 30,000 people killed by guns each year. I guess they do not count.

So Dan, you are using the agrument that a town of less than 30,000 is a good example of the must have gun to stop crime. The population is less than 1/3 of the population of the 285 most populated city in the United States. Because crime and gun ownership as we know are mutually exclusive and no other factors might cause crime. Where Kennesaw has one of the high average education level in the state of Georgia. They also have a average household income that is $20,000 more than the average household income in the Tampa Bay Area ($10,000 more than the national average). If I have money to purchase things I doubt I'm going to robb to get them. Their are several other factors that just going over the government and census documentation for Kennesaw which would show that crime who naturally decrease gunlaws or not. Also other research has shown no link in Kennesaw to support David Koppel (Gun Activist) claim that it was due to the gun laws.

This is an apple to orange comparison. Cars are not purchased to carry around concealed. Cars are not purchased as a means of destruction. Fatty fods can kill, the air we breath can kill, Standing under a tree in a storm can kill. But a gun is designed only for one thing

Dan,
This is another bad agrument. The agrument is should their be a bann on certain types of guns. Using the car agrument, is invalid, because their is a bann on the public owning certain types of cars. I don't see many people trying Formula 1 cars down the streets, because they are banned from public consumtion.

Please help me understand . . are MOST gun owners in the country IN FAVOR of keeping the "military type" weapons legal (the type that were used to murder the elementary school children)? Or do gun owners also think something should be done to limit such easy access to these type of guns?

My guess is there are many responsible gun owners that would like to see an end to easy access of "assault type" weapons.

I'm asking because I'm not a gun owner and yet I see nothing wrong with having a simple handgun for protection or having a hunting rifle if one likes to kill animals ... but I don't think there should be a place in our society for "assault type" weapons to be in the hands of just "anyone" out there over the age of 18 .. just because the law says they can.

Dad of Three...your comment seems to suggest to me that you know very little about guns or your Constitutional rights you seem so eager to waive - that our grandfathers fought and died for so that we would have them. You need to better educate yourself on both subjects before you put the future of our nation at risk by allowing us to be subjugated by the Left wing extremists' Socialist agendas. "Guns with rapid rate of fire"...what do you mean? Surely you must know that fully automatic weapons are already heavily regulated and not easily accessible. They require a class 3 firearms licence, which unless you are a big-time gun dealer or super rich person, you will never have. "Large magazines of ammunition"...by what standard is "large" defined? 6 rounds, 10 rounds, 15 rounds, 30 rounds? The key to minimizing tragedies like the one in CT is education, coupled with finding better ways to address mental health issues before they may become serious enough to allow the sufferer to go over the edge. In nearly every case like this, people close to the shooter knew something was amiss with them but were unable to do anything about it or get help because of the way our system is set up. Fix the mental health system and you will have fixed the overwhelming majority of would-be future issues.

MARK writes >Surely you must know that fully automatic weapons are already heavily regulated and not easily accessible. They require a class 3 firearms licence, which unless you are a big-time gun dealer or super rich person, you will never have.

I respond > I see how effective these controls are. Only big time gun dealers & super rich can get them?
WOW. That crazy in Arora was a big time gun dealer, or super rich? I guess the crazy kid in ct's mother was a big time gun dealer too, or super rich? Maybe the kid himself was a big time gun dealer? My point is the regulations are WORTHLESS. The only way to make sure they are gone is to outlaw them, confiscate them, & imprison anyone cought with of one. There is no need for anyone to have one. The rules don't work. People are being killed because we don't eliminate them. People should be able to own a safe gun, but killing machines should be outlawed & everyone know there will be a time when they will be outlawed. If recent events haven't pushed it over the edge yet, the next one, or two will. We all know there will be other killings using assault weapons on innocents. One of those times will be the last straw. You can hoard your weapons, but will face jail time & or heavy fines for breaking the law. That will be law. The Supream Court will decide. Not YOU.

Mark wrote to me>
Mark

8:35 am on Wednesday, January 2, 2013

You're a fool Michael. This is my last comment to you. I will not waste any more of my time

HEY MARK, WHATEVER? THAT'S NO SKIN OFF MY BUTT.

Hey Michael - wake up! The Left is trying to hijack the government right under your nose right now by trying to make fundamental changes such as the abolition of our second amendment rights. That is one of the first steps in a government gone rogue - taking the people's weapons. It's been done repeatedly throughout history and is the very reason our founders found it so important as to make it the very next thing they guaranteed after freedom of speech.

Your right Mark. Arm with eveything you can. See if you can get some TNT, we'll hit the Pentagon at midnight. We might be able to wipe out the whole White House staff if we can bring enough clips of Ammo. After we do a Bill Ayers on the Pentagon we can hit the White House. Get as many malitia friends as possible. If you have any bayonetts get then too. Granades are als good.Forget the semi-auto crap. We need isreali machine guns. We'll take as many down as we can. We'll make Sandy Hook look like a child's party. LOL. We'll show those rouge socialists that they can't take the guns out of OUR hands till we are cold & dead. That will make sure America stays free.

You're a fool Michael. This is my last comment to you. I will not waste any more of my time.

People are wasting the time of common sense posters. They keep giving us the same old lines about the second amendment & why the founding fathers gave us that right. They turn a deaf ear to any common sense that when the founding fathers wrote that into our nations guidlines, several things apply. First, there weren't constant & repeat incidents of crazys going into school houses & killing all the kids & teachers. There weren't crazys going into public gatherings & mowing down as many as they could. If that was happening, they would have thought that permitting the unrestrained use of guns was a good idea, but not realistically feasible. Second, the founding fathers were men, not spokesman of God. They weren't infallable. They had no crystal balls to tell them that weapons would evolve to the piont of putting a Gattling Gun in the hands of anyone who could manuver the system to get one. Third, they couldn't envision technology bombarding youth with games that glorify killing mass numbers that impressionable kids play hour after hour, day after day. Fourth Just because Hitler disarmed his people for his reasons, doesn't mean America's reaction to a problem that has reached a head is for any reason but to try to stop sensless killing. Fifth, in Hitler's time, people being armed could have stopped Hitler. In today's America, people being armed can kill innocent civilians, but are like pea shooters vs. what Govenments have today should they want to stomp down on the people.

These people always think the left is trying to hijack the government. Maybe the left has a different value structure than the right? The right is America's past not wanting to change & the left is aware of these changes & implimenting what is needed in a changed society. The right refuses to recognize these changes & the left has adapted to current life in America. The scientific discription of intellegence is a life forms ability to adapt to change. That may be why Conservatives are viewed as not being the sharpest pencils in the box. It isn't 1950s anymore. Ike isn't Pres. & Ozzie & Harriet isn't a representation of America.

What you say makes sense, but, no matter what the cost is, my feeling is if given a choice of food or guns, but cannot afford both, it will be guns as first choice. But guns should go thru regristration every year like a car. Not or ever being a gun owner, I would think regristration would be required every year, including mental health or other. They can suspend a drivers license or revoke a license, why not then guns if found to be unfit. I do not have a gun, nor do I drive due to age. And no,
the license was not taken away or revoked, I just said I am too old to drive Why not
thren with guns if one can no longer be responsible for having one rather than waiting for an accident to happen